Social Science Bites - Heidi Larson on Vaccine Skepticism

As the toll from the COVID-19 pandemic increased, polling suggests counterintuitively that resistance to a future vaccine has also risen. Anthropologist Heidi J. Larson identified several likely drivers of this, including political polarization, a focus on being ‘natural,’ the undercurrent of mistrusting the so-called elite. But in this Social Science Bites podcast, she tells interviewer Dave Edmonds that there’s another driver.

Scientists themselves.

Families who have some expertise in running their own affairs can come to resent “the elitism of science, the language of science, the ‘we know better’” which dismisses their experiences and more importantly, their questions. “A lot of parents feel very strongly feel that they have their own evidence of vaccine problems,” she notes, and the medical establishment has often not invested a lot into bringing the public along – even as the number of vaccines and the expectation of being vaccinated grows.

“[The public is] saying, wait a minute – we want to have say in this, we want to be able to ask some questions … [W]hen they feel like the door in closed on the questions, that shuts down the conversation. I think in order to become unstuck, we need to have more dialog and be open.”

Stuck is the name of Larson’s new book. Besides the obvious pun in the title, Larson explains Stuck: How Vaccine Rumors Start -- and Why They Don't Go Away also refers to being “stuck in the conversation, why the public health community has been losing some of the public enthusiasm for vaccines.”

These are questions and concerns Larson routinely addresses in her role as director of the Vaccine Confidence Project, a World Health Organization (WHO) Centre of Excellence that addresses vaccine hesitancy, and as a professor of anthropology, risk and decision science at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine’s Department of Infectious Disease Epidemiology.

The first organized opposition to compulsory vaccination arose in the United Kingdom in the late 1800s, she explains, as a reaction to mandatory smallpox vaccinations. “To this day that is one of the persistent themes that has fueled some of this resistance.”

Nonetheless, as vaccinations remain one of the most remarkable health interventions available, the resistance that might be expected to erode in the face of a global health emergency hasn’t faded.

“Strangely, in the context of the pandemic, the already amplified skepticism has taken another level of resistance, which is surprising to many of us. You’d think with such a serious disease and a pandemic it would be a time where people would say, ‘Wow, this is really an example of why we really need a vaccine.’”

And the resistance, whether to a coronavirus vaccine or to vaccine in general, can be seen globally. In fact, Larson is seeing resistance groups linking up across borders – and an a most inopportune time.  “I see the whole increase in the anti- and skepticism as being kind of a tipping point … We’ve always had all these other issues that have been challenging in getting enough people vaccinated, both from the supply of the vaccine and the access, logistics and all the rest. But this additional factor – we’ve stagnated in our global vaccination coverage and just can’t seem to get above a certain amount.” And those coverage levels in some cases fall below the thresholds needed for “herd immunity,” which in turn means we can expect more cases, whether or COVID, measles or even polio.

Social media has helped skeptics get their messages disseminated, and Larson notes that the Wakefield autism scare arose the same year as the start of Google. “The sentiments are not new,” she says, “but the scale and intensity of them is.”

In addition to her position in London, Larson is also a clinical professor in the Department of Global Health at the University of Washington and a guest professor at the University of Antwerp. She previously headed global immunization communication at UNICEF, chaired the Advocacy Task Force for the Gates Foundation-sponsored Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, and served on the WHO Strategic Advisory Group of Experts Working Group on vaccine hesitancy.

Start the Week - Meritocracy and inequality

As inequality continues to rise and political and social divisions become more entrenched, Amol Rajan discusses what can be done to restore social values and a sense of community - with the political philosopher Michael Sandel, the award winning novelist Elif Shafak, and commentator and author David Goodhart.

Michael Sandel describes how we live in an age of winners and losers, an era in which social mobility has stalled. In the past the answer has been to attempt to increase access by rewarding the most able, regardless of wealth or class. But in The Tyranny of Merit, Sandel highlights the deep inequality this has continued to perpetuate, with hubris among those at the top and humiliation and judgement for those at the bottom.

David Goodhart calls for a radical rebalancing of what we value. In Head, Hand and Heart: The Struggle for Dignity and Status in the 21st Century, Goodhart describes how success, esteem and power have become narrowly associated with cognitive abilities. This, he argues, has disrupted community cohesion and left large swathes of people feeling disregarded and unrewarded.

Elif Shafak responds to the tenor of our time with a short manifesto How To Sane In An Age Of Division. She believes that we have entered a time of pessimism. She explores how storytelling can nurture the empathy, wisdom and tolerance needed to progress.

Producer: Katy Hickman

Start the Week - Meritocracy and inequality

As inequality continues to rise and political and social divisions become more entrenched, Amol Rajan discusses what can be done to restore social values and a sense of community - with the political philosopher Michael Sandel, the award winning novelist Elif Shafak, and commentator and author David Goodhart.

Michael Sandel describes how we live in an age of winners and losers, an era in which social mobility has stalled. In the past the answer has been to attempt to increase access by rewarding the most able, regardless of wealth or class. But in The Tyranny of Merit, Sandel highlights the deep inequality this has continued to perpetuate, with hubris among those at the top and humiliation and judgement for those at the bottom.

David Goodhart calls for a radical rebalancing of what we value. In Head, Hand and Heart: The Struggle for Dignity and Status in the 21st Century, Goodhart describes how success, esteem and power have become narrowly associated with cognitive abilities. This, he argues, has disrupted community cohesion and left large swathes of people feeling disregarded and unrewarded.

Elif Shafak responds to the tenor of our time with a short manifesto How To Sane In An Age Of Division. She believes that we have entered a time of pessimism. She explores how storytelling can nurture the empathy, wisdom and tolerance needed to progress.

Producer: Katy Hickman

In the Bubble with Andy Slavitt - Toolkit: COVID Long-Haulers

A Monday Toolkit episode -- this one focused on the mystery of COVID-19 long-haulers, people who report an array of long-term symptoms. We've got two experts to break down what we know -- and don't know -- from both a clinical and research standpoint. Emergency room physician Craig Spencer and virologist Angela Rasmussen answer your voicemails and emails about why some people become long-haulers and others don't, what, if any, patterns are emerging, where to go for help, and how we are trying to figure it all out. 

Keep up with Andy on Twitter @ASlavitt and Instagram @andyslavitt.

Follow Craig Spencer @Craig_A_Spencer and Angela Rasmussen @angie_rasmussen on Twitter.

In the Bubble is supported in part by listeners like you. Become a member, get exclusive bonus content, ask Andy questions, and get discounted merch at https://www.lemonadamedia.com/inthebubble/ 

 

Support the show by checking out our sponsors!

  • Livinguard masks have the potential to deactivate COVID-19 based on the testing they have conducted from leading universities such as the University of Arizona and the Free University in Berlin, Germany. Go to shop.livinguard.com and use the code BUBBLE for 15% off.
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Check out these resources from today’s episode: 

 

To follow along with a transcript and/or take notes for friends and family, go to www.lemonadamedia.com/show/in-the-bubble shortly after the air date.

Stay up to date with us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at @LemonadaMedia. For additional resources, information, and a transcript of the episode, visit lemonadamedia.com

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Everything Everywhere Daily - The Two-Hour Marathon

Eliud Kipchoge is unquestionably the greatest marathon runner in history. He’s won an Olympic Gold Medal, holds the world’s record, and has won 12 of the 13 marathons he has ever entered. However, there was one accomplishment that had been out of reach for Kipchoge and every other marathoner: The 2-hour marathon. On October 12, 2019, Kipchoge managed to break that barrier under some very special circumstances.

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CoinDesk Podcast Network - BREAKDOWN: A Practical Utopian’s Guide to the Coming Collapse

A reading on revolutions from the late great David Graeber. 

This episode is sponsored by Crypto.comBitstamp and Nexo.io.

Earlier this week, news broke that David Graeber, author of influential works such as “Debt: The First 5000 Years,” had passed away. 

In his memory, today’s Long Reads Sunday is a reading of his 2013 piece “A Practical Utopian’s Guide to the Coming Collapse.” 

In it, he argues the impact of the revolutionary period of the 1960s was much more profound than popular opinion has it, and that the age of revolution is far from complete.

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The Phil Ferguson Show - 355 The Family with Jeff Sharlet – Polaris Plan Part 5

Interview with author Jeff Sharlet. We discuss some of his books and how religion, politics and blind ambition for power resulted in Trump.
A couple of his books...
-
The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power
-
C Street: The Fundamentalist Threat to American Democracy
- https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/inside-the-cult-of-trump-his-rallies-are-church-and-he-is-the-gospel
Investing Skpetically: The Polaris Plan Part 5

Bonus audio:
- West Wing bible lesson
- Susan Jacoby - A Christian Nation

Curious City - Why Did So Many Chicago Bars Disappear?

While our recent episodes have been taking you to different neighborhoods throughout the city, this week we’re visiting a Chicago neighborhood institution: the tavern. Recently, there have been a lot of debates surrounding whether to keep bars open during the COVID-19 pandemic and how to do so safely. And some of Chicago’s bars have struggled to stay in business. But even before the pandemic, bars have been disappearing.

Unexpected Elements - Nyiragongo – is Goma under threat?

A new survey of the volcano's activity suggests there may be an eruption in the next 4 to 7 years. It's a particular concern for the populations of Goma and Gisenyi, two cites between the volcano and lake Kivu. As we hear from the director of the Goma Volcano Observatory Katcho Karume, the city of Goma in particular has expanded so much that many people now live right next to fissures in the flank of the volcano through which any eruption would likely occur.

Hurricane Laura made landfall in Louisiana's main area of swamp land, missing big urban areas to either side. It was a lucky escape for many, but as hurricane historian Jill Trepanier tells us such extreme weather events do seem to be more frequent and potentially more destructive.

And wildfires ravaging California and other Western US states may have been intensified by changes to global weather systems . Climate scientist Bill Lau says those weather systems in turn have been modified by man-made climate change.

In November 2018 a Chinese scientist announced he had edited the genes of twin girls. The announcement was greeted with horror by many researchers in the field. Now a way to regulate gene editing internationally has been proposed by some of the world's leading scientific institutions. Kay Davies co-author of their report explains the plan.

What does science say about controlling urination, and other bodily functions? We tackle three queries about peeing triggers, pooing positions and missing sweat. This episode CrowdScience presenter Marnie Chesterton poses some of the best listener follow-up questions that have landed in our inbox to a panel of experts.

Listener Samuel in Ghana is wondering why watery sounds seem to induce urination. Producer Melanie Brown heads out to survey whether this is the case for individuals in an actual crowd at a public fountain in London. And urologist and trustee of the International Continence Society Marcus Drake talks Marnie through how he uses the sound of running water during his work as a hospital doctor helping patients with common but distressing peeing issues, and the limitations of research into this question.

And he's not the only listener who wants us to dig deeper into topics we've explored on the show before. Anna in Tokyo also got in touch after hearing our show about toilets, to ask if there is a toilet design that is most 'natural' for our health. Gastroenterologist Anton Emmanuel explains why small changes in people's posture whilst pooing can have a significant impact on their quality of life.

Finally, listeners Stelle, James and Joel emailed crowdscience@bbc.co.uk after hearing Marnie investigate hyperhidrosis: Sweating too much. They and their relatives experience the opposite.

(Main Image: Sunset, Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo. Credit: Shamim Shorif Susom / EyeEm / Getty Images)

Lex Fridman Podcast - #121 – Eugenia Kuyda: Friendship with an AI Companion

Eugenia Kuyda co-founder of Replika, an AI companion. Please check out our sponsors to get a discount and to support this podcast:
Dollar Shave Club: https://dollarshaveclub.com/lex
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Episode links:
Eugenia’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/ekuyda
Replika’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/myreplika
Replika’s Website: https://replika.ai

If you would like to get more information about this podcast go to https://lexfridman.com/podcast or connect with @lexfridman on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Medium, or YouTube where you can watch the video versions of these conversations. If you enjoy the podcast, please rate it 5 stars on Apple Podcasts, follow on Spotify, or support it on Patreon.

Here’s the outline of the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.

OUTLINE:
00:00 – Introduction
06:18 – Loneliness
13:54 – Can AI alleviate loneliness?
18:13 – Love
20:49 – Russia in the 1990’s
31:47 – Chernobyl
41:35 – Communism
49:21 – Losing a friend
57:55 – Mortality
1:10:41 – Replika origin story
1:59:37 – Bringing people back to life with AI
2:05:37 – Relationship with Replika
2:18:27 – Can you form a connection with text alone?
2:27:45 – Does an AI companion need a body?
2:30:20 – Her
2:37:24 – GPT-3 for conversation
2:43:48 – We should be nice to AI
2:46:52 – Book recommendations
2:53:45 – Russian language
2:58:41 – Meaning of life