Author: Paris Marx, Chris Gilliard

Paris Marx is joined by Chris Gilliard to discuss David Golumbia's final book Cyberlibertarianism and how right-wing politics shaped how we think about the internet.

Chris Gilliard is co-director of the Critical Internet Studies Institute and author of the forthcoming book Luxury Surveillance, coming in 2026.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• David Golumbia wrote an essay called “ChatGPT Should Not Exist” in December 2022.
• Matt Bors drew a comic called “You made become a Nazi!”
• Cyberlibertarianism is out now from the University of Minnesota Press.

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Paris Marx is joined by Chris Gilliard to discuss the push to expand surveillance technologies in schools during the pandemic and in response to school shootings, and why they’re making life worse for students without addressing the problems they claim to solve.

Chris Gilliard is Just Tech Fellow at the Social Science Research Council at a recurring columnist at Wired. Follow Chris on Twitter at @hypervisible.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Follow the podcast (@techwontsaveus) and host Paris Marx (@parismarx) on Twitter, and support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is produced by Eric Wickham and part of the Harbinger Media Network.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Chris recently wrote about why school surveillance won’t protect kids from shootings.
• Chris and David Golumbia wrote about luxury surveillance for Real Life.
• Pia Ceres wrote about how students’ school devices are still tracking what they do on them.
• Amazon is launching a new show called “Ring Nation” to make Ring surveillance videos seem less invasive.
• Studies by the Center for Democracy and Technology have found negative effects from surveillance on student expression and increasing their contact with police.
• After nine members of Axon’s AI ethics board resigned, plans for a taser drone in schools seem to still be inching forward.
• Todd Feathers reported on how school monitoring tools could flag searches for sexual and reproductive health resources.
• Pasco County in Florida deployed a predictive policing system targeting children. 
• Some books mentioned: David Noble Progress Without People and Forces of Production, and Dan Greene wrote The Promise of Access: Technology, Inequality, and the Political Economy of Hope.

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Paris Marx is joined by Chris Gilliard to discuss the ethics of tech media recommending surveillance devices, aspects of “smart” technologies you might not have considered, and why we should think twice about surrounding ourselves with cameras and microphones.

Chris Gilliard is a Visiting Research Fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School Shorenstein Center. Follow Chris on Twitter at @hypervisible.

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Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Follow the podcast (@techwontsaveus) and host Paris Marx (@parismarx) on Twitter, and support the show on Patreon.

Find out more about Harbinger Media Network at harbingermedianetwork.com.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Chris wrote about the history of home surveillance, and the concept of luxury surveillance with David Golumbia.
• Caroline Haskins went in-depth on what Ring does to communities.
• Health apps and fitness trackers help rich people but don’t do much for poor people.
• The New York Times thinks the Theranos scandal soured the media on Silicon Valley. (We don’t buy it.)
• US Infrastructure Bill will require monitoring systems for drunk driving in new vehicles as early as 2026.
• Amazon has worked to kill or undermine privacy legislation across 25 US states.
• In 2019, video circulated of a man talking to someone’s 8-year-old daughter after he hacked the Ring camera in her bedroom.
• In the US, wage theft matches all other property theft combined, but the media sensationalizes shoplifting while ignoring wage theft.
• Chris recommended people read Simone Brown’s Dark Matters: On the Surveillance of Blackness.
• The Wirecutter Union is asking people not to visit the website from November 25-29.

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Paris Marx is joined by Chris Gilliard to discuss how decisions by powerful institutions over how to implement new technologies in cities, education, health, and more have the effect of creating a form of digital redlining that hides existing social problems.

Chris Gilliard is a Visiting Research Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School Shorenstein Center and teaches at Macomb Community College. You can follow Chris on Twitter as @hypervisible.

🎉 In April 2021, Tech Won’t Save Us celebrates its first birthday. If we get 30 new supporters at $5+ per month, we’ll start a weekly newsletter in addition to the weekly podcast to provide a new way for people to access critical perspectives on technology. If you like the show, become a supporter and help us reach our goal!

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Follow the podcast (@techwontsaveus) and host Paris Marx (@parismarx) on Twitter, and support the show on Patreon.

Find out more about Harbinger Media Network at harbingermedianetwork.com.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Chris wrote about how technology can hide racism in the "frictionless" society. He also wrote about digital redlining in education.
• Despite redlining being outlawed, the effects can still be seen in many outcomes, including health. See the redlining maps at Mapping Inequality.
• Amazon originally excluded predominantly Black communities when it rolled out same-day delivery in Boston.
• In 2019, Facebook was sued by the Department of Housing and Urban Development for allowing discrimination in its housing ads. In 2020, it was found to still be doing it.
• Bots are getting US vaccine appointments, and programmers are having to help relatives get appointments.

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