Author: Paris Marx, Timnit Gebru

Paris Marx is joined by Timnit Gebru to discuss where the AI industry stands in 2025 as AI increasingly becomes a geopolitical football even as the big promises made by AI companies fail to materialize.

Timnit Gebru is the founder and executive director of the Distributed AI Research Institute.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is made in partnership with The Nation. Production is by Eric Wickham.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Timnit wrote about the TESCREAL bundle of ideologies with Émile Torres.
• The Data Workers’ Inquiry allowed data workers to share their experiences in their workplaces.

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Paris Marx is joined by Timnit Gebru to discuss the past year in AI hype, how AI companies have shaped regulation, and tech’s relationship to Israel’s military campaign in Gaza.
 
Timnit Gebru is the founder and executive director of the Distributed AI Research Institute.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Support the show on Patreon.
 
The podcast is produced by Eric Wickham. Transcripts are by Brigitte Pawliw-Fry.
 
Also mentioned in this episode:

• Paris is speaking in Montreal on January 20. Details here.
• Billy Perrigo reported on OpenAI lobbying to water down the EU’s AI Act.
• Nitasha Tiku wrote about the push to train students in a particular idea of AI.
• Politico has been doing a lot of reporting on the influences on AI policy in the US and UK.
• OpenAI made a submission in the UK to try to get permission to train on copyrighted material.
• Arab workers in the tech industry fear the consequences of speaking out for Palestinian rights.
• 972 Magazine reported on Israel’s use of AI to increase its targets in Gaza.
• Jack Poulson chronicles the growing ties between military and tech.
• Timnit mentioned No Tech for Apartheid, Antony Loewenstein’s The Palestine Laboratory, and Malcolm Harris’ Palo Alto.

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Paris Marx is joined by Timnit Gebru to discuss the misleading framings of artificial intelligence, her experience of getting fired by Google in a very public way, and why we need to avoid getting distracted by all the hype around ChatGPT and AI image tools.

Timnit Gebru is the founder and executive director of the Distributed AI Research Institute and former co-lead of the Ethical AI research team at Google. You can follow her on Twitter at @timnitGebru.

Tech Won’t Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Follow the podcast (@techwontsaveus) and host Paris Marx (@parismarx) on Twitter, and support the show on Patreon.

The podcast is produced by Eric Wickham and part of the Harbinger Media Network.

Also mentioned in this episode:

• Please participate in our listener survey this month to give us a better idea of what you think of the show: https://forms.gle/xayiT7DQJn56p62x7
• Timnit wrote about the exploited labor behind AI tools and how effective altruism is pushing a harmful idea of AI ethics.
• Karen Hao broke down the details of the paper that got Timnit fired from Google.
• Emily Tucker wrote an article called “Artifice and Intelligence.”
• In 2016, ProPublica published an article about technology being used to “predict” future criminals that was biased against black people.
• In 2015, Google Photos classified black women as “gorillas.” In 2018, it still hadn’t really been fixed.
• Artists have been protesting AI-generated images that train themselves on their work and threaten their livelihoods.
• OpenAI used Kenyan workers paid less than $2 an hour to try to make ChatGPT less toxic.
• Zachary Loeb described ELIZA in his article about Joseph Weizenbaum’s work and legacy.

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