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COMMENTARY contributing editor Jonathan Schanzer joins the podcast to discuss his innovative plan for Israel to stop playing Hamas's game and bring the war in Gaza to a victorious end. Give a listen.
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By almost all accounts, the historic trade deal that was reached between the United States and the 27 nations of the European Union is far better for the United States than it is for Europe.
Jeanna Smialek, the Brussels bureau chief for The Times, explains why the European Union gave in to President Trump and the blowback that’s causing.
Guest: Jeanna Smialek, the Brussels bureau chief for The New York Times.
Background reading:
For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.
Photo: Tierney L. Cross/The New York Times
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Here’s one fun question to ask at a dinner party: What is your favorite conspiracy theory?
There’s the idea that the CIA killed John F. Kennedy. The moon landing was fake, and 9/11 was an inside job. Covid was designed by the Gates Foundation to control the world—and the Covid vaccine had a microchip. There’s the deep state. Chemtrails. QAnon. The Illuminati. Reptilian overlords. Pizzagate—which says that high-ranking Democrats were running a child sex-trafficking ring out of a D.C. pizzeria.
That one, Pizzagate, is rivaled only by the idea that there is a group of Satan-worshipping globalists and Hollywood celebrities who traffic children in order to harvest adrenochrome, a chemical which, in this scenario, is extracted from their blood. Why? It’s obvious: They inject it in order to stay young.
It’s easy to joke about these theories. It’s much harder to reckon with the fact that many Americans believe them sincerely—and their justification is grounded in the fact that some conspiracy theories turn out to not be theories, but fact.
The government was poisoning alcohol during Prohibition. The FBI was illegally spying on civil-rights activists like MLK. The U.S. government did let some few hundred black men with syphilis go untreated to study the effects. And Covid likely came from a lab in Wuhan, China.
The question is how to tolerate and even encourage healthy speculation and investigation? How do we allow for skepticism of received wisdom, which may actually be wrong, without it leading to reptilian Jewish overlords?
In the past few weeks, the speculation surrounding Jeffrey Epstein’s life and death is a perfect example of this conundrum. It’s a story filled with smoke and unanswered questions: How did Epstein get so rich in the first place? Was his wealth connected to his crimes? Was he acting alone? Was there a client list—and if so, who was on it? Why did he get such a sweetheart deal? And on and on.
And then things get more far-fetched: Was Epstein’s suicide faked? Who could have killed him? Was he connected to foreign intelligence? And my favorite: Was he running a Jewish cabal?
To help us understand why conspiracy theories are so compelling—and how we might better engage with those who believe them—is Ross Douthat.
Ross Douthat is an opinion columnist at The New York Times and host of the Interesting Times podcast. He has been covering conspiratorial thinking—how to understand it, and what to do about it—for years.
In 2020, he wrote: “It’s a mistake to believe most conspiracy theories, but it’s also a mistake to assume that they bear no relation to reality. Some are just insane emanations or deliberate misinformation. But others exaggerate and misread important trends rather than denying them, or offer implausible explanations for mysteries that nonetheless linger unexplained.” Which we thought perfectly encapsulated the conundrum of handling conspiracy theories today.
So today on Honestly, Bari asks Ross: What is the state of conspiracy theories in America? How do we dispel conspiracy theories that are clearly false—without relying on establishment sources the public no longer trusts? And what are the consequences when these theories go unchecked?
Go to groundnews.com/Honestly to get 40% off the unlimited access Vantage plan and unlock world-wide perspectives on today’s biggest news stories.
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“It’s so insidious, people don’t realize it,” Barbara Kingsolver told me, describing the prejudice against “country people.” Kingsolver is one of those “country people,” as well as a literary legend in her own time, who set out to write the “great Appalachian novel.” And I think she did.
“Demon Copperhead” won the Pulitzer Prize in 2023, and we taped this conversation later that year. And I wanted to re-air it because the divide between rural and urban America remains just as strong today, and as relevant to our politics. And Kingsolver might be the country’s sharpest and most poignant observer of it.
Mentioned:
Shiloh and Other Stories by Bobbie Ann Mason
Book Recommendations:
Landings by Arwen Donahue
Raising Lazarus by Beth Macy
Pod by Laline Paull
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html.
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Sonia Herrero, with Aman Sahota.
Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Donald Trump splits with Benjamin Netanyahu and acknowledges that Gaza is experiencing "real starvation"—but will he pressure Israel to end the war and allow more aid in? Lovett, Favreau, and Tommy react to the latest developments in Gaza, Trump's shifting and typically incoherent comments on the situation, and why it's time for Democrats to change their approach to Israel. Then, they dive into Trump's new story about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and check in on that "free" plane he received from the Qatari government. Later, Tommy sits down with Israeli journalist Amir Tibon to discuss how the aid shortages in Gaza got so bad, and how Israel's far right influences Netanyahu.
Get tickets to CROOKED CON November 6-7 in Washington, D.C at crookedcon.com
Marc Raimondi discusses Say Hello to the Bad Guys: How Professional Wrestling’s New World Order Changed America, his new book on Hulk Hogan’s heel turn and how WCW’s edgy branding reflected a broader cultural shift. We learn how steroid scandals, media savvy, and black t-shirts reshaped wrestling—and maybe U.S. politics. In the Spiel, Russell Vought’s viral soundbites about cocaine beagles and government-funded lizard wind tunnels. Plus: The worst job in Tehran as the wells run dry.
Produced by Corey Wara
Production Coordinator Ashley Khan
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