Ravi sits down with Steven Wilson, founder of Ascend Charter Schools, for a candid conversation about his new book, The Lost Decade, and the current state of education reform. They discuss Steven’s controversial exit from Ascend and then step back to take a broader look at how DEI orthodoxy and anti-racist ideology have reshaped education reform.
Steven and Ravi reflect on what’s changed in schools over the past decade, exploring the tension between pushing for academic excellence and navigating a fast-changing cultural and political landscape. They also unpack what it means to build school cultures that are both rigorous and inclusive, the role funders play in defining priorities, and why it’s more important than ever to have honest, and sometimes uncomfortable, conversations about the future of education.
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Notes from this episode are available on Substack: https://thelostdebate.substack.com/
Lost Debate is available on the following platforms:
Noah Rothman joins the podcast this morning to talk about the horrors in DC last night and how they connect to the increasing embrace of violence on the left after 2015—which accelerated after the George Floyd killing and is now manifesting itself not only in the assassination of a health-care executive by new radical folk hero Luigi Mangione but now in the deliberate targeting of a Jewish event at a Jewish site by a berserk far leftist. Give a listen.
The late biologist E.O. Wilson said that “the real problem of humanity is the following: We have Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and god-like technology. And it is terrifically dangerous.” Wilson said that back in 2011, long before any of us were talking about large language models or GPTs.
A little more than a decade later, artificial intelligence is already completely transforming our world. Practitioners and experts have compared A.I. to the advent of electricity and fire itself. “God-like” doesn’t seem that far off.
Even sober experts predict disease cures and radically expanded lifespans, real-time disaster prediction and response, the elimination of language barriers, and other earthly miracles. A.I. is amazing, in the truest sense of that word.
It is also leading some to predict nothing less than a crisis in what it means to be human in an age of brilliant machines. Others—including some of the people creating this technology—predict our possible extinction as a species.
But you don’t have to go quite that far to imagine the way it will transform our relationship toward information and our ability to pursue the truth.
For tens of thousands of years, since humans started to stand upright and talk to each other, we’ve found our way to wisdom through disagreement and debate.
But in the age of A.I., our sources of truth are machines that spit out the information we already have, reflecting our biases and our blind spots.
What happens to truth when we no longer wrestle with it—and only receive it passively? When disagreeable, complicated human beings are replaced with A.I. chatbots that just tell us what we want to hear? It makes today’s concerns about misinformation and disinformation seem quaint.
Our ability to detect whether something is real or an A.I.-generated fabrication is approaching zero. And unlike social media—a network of people that we instinctively know can be wrong—A.I. systems have a veneer of omniscience, despite being riddled with the biases of the humans who trained them. Meanwhile, a global arms race is underway, with the U.S. and China competing to decide who gets to control the authoritative information source of the future.
So last week Bari traveled to San Francisco to host a debate on whether this remarkable, revolutionary technology will enhance our understanding of the world and bring us closer to the truth . . .or do just the opposite.
The resolution: The Truth Will Survive Artificial Intelligence!
Aravind Srinivas argued yes—the truth will survive A.I. Aravind is the CEO of one of the most exciting companies in this field, Perplexity, which he co-founded in 2022 after working at OpenAI, Google, and DeepMind.
Aravind was joined by Dr. Fei-Fei Li. Fei-Fei is a professor of computer science at Stanford, the founding co-director of the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered A.I., and the CEO and co-founder of World Labs, an A.I. company focusing on spatial intelligence and generative A.I.
Jaron Lanier argued that no, the truth will not survive A.I. Jaron is a computer scientist, best-selling author, and the founder of VPL Research, the first company to sell virtual reality products.
Jaron was joined by Nicholas Carr, the author of countless best-selling books on the human consequences of technology, including Pulitzer Prize finalist The Shallows, The Glass Cage, and, most recently, Superbloom. He also writes the wonderful Substack New Cartographies.
FIRE knows free speech makes free people. You make it possible. Join the movement today at thefire.org.
Cosmos Institute and FIRE are launching a $1M fund – cash and compute – for open-source AI projects that advance truth-seeking. Apply at CosmosGrants.org/truth!
In the latest installment of the ongoing interview series with contributing editor Mark Bauerlein, Caitrin Bennett joins in to discuss her recent book, "Holier Matrimony: Married Saints, Catholic Vows, and Sacramental Grace."
Intro music by Jack Bauerlein.
Mark Halperin joins the podcast today to talk about the continuing fallout from the Biden revelations, whether the "big beautiful bill" will pass, and whether Donald Trump's announcement of a new missile-defense system passes the smell test. Give a listen.
Today we have on repeat guest Karen Hao to talk about her new blockbuster book “Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI.” It’s an amazing, deeply reported book that somehow encapsulates the history of AI, Silicon Valley, and OpenAI while also making a needed and clear argument about how we should think about this technology. Truly like if “Barbarians at the Gate” met “The Shock Doctrine” and it was about AI. We talk about the beginnings of OpenAI, how it burns a colonial path throughout the rest of the world in the form of data centers and exploitative labor, and how we might find a better alternative to Sam Altman’s plan to take over the world. Can’t recommend this book more highly — go get it!
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But I think the story here is more complicated. If Biden’s top advisers were misleading the public, I think they were also lying to themselves. And if there was a cover-up, it had a lot of holes; voters had been telling pollsters they were worried about Biden’s age for years.
So I wanted to have Tapper on the show to talk about the discoveries in his book, but also about some of the bigger questions raised by the Democratic Party’s decision to almost renominate Biden: How do you see what is right in front of your eyes? How do you avoid letting loyalty to a person or a party blind you?
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Kelsey Kudak. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Marina King, Jan Kobal, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
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In this episode, we break down Biden’s cancer diagnosis and the backlash over its timing. Plus, a new election report spells big trouble for Democrats — and we make an important announcement about the future of the program. Don't miss this one.
Time stamps:
13:40 - Biden's cancer diagnosis
48:01 - Why Harris lost
55:52 - Announcement
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What does Canada think about Donald Trump’s America? Zachary and Emma speak with David Frum, author, staff writer at The Atlantic, political commentator, and former speechwriter for President George W. Bush. A Canadian American, David elaborates on Canada’s strategic integration with the U.S., the implications of recent shifts including Trump’s tariffs and newly elected Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney, and what the future of American democracy looks like from his stance as both a Canadian and a former White House employee. David also suggests what ordinary Americans can do on top of voting.
What Could Go Right? is produced by The Progress Network and The Podglomerate.
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