In the interview, Sonari talks to screenwriter Patricia Resnick about her experience writing the film 9 to 5 starring Jane Fonda, Dolly Parton, and Lily Tomlin. They discuss how the film became more than just a vehicle for workplace rights activism, its legacy, and how she seems to have been erased from its history by Jane Fonda.
Today we’re presenting a conversation between myself (Andy) and my college friend Merlin Chowkwanyun, assistant professor of sociomedical sciences at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health.
For years I’ve peppered Merlin with questions about how to understand the never-ending debate over “race versus class” in the US -- for instance, this New York Times piece from two weeks ago -- a subject that he’s studied for years.
We focus on a critique of “racial disparity” discourse that he has written about several times, co-authored with the political theorist Adolph Reed Jr. (University of Pennsylvania). Across discussions of public health, economics, and policing (for instance, their NEJM paper on Covid-19 disparities this spring), they argue that we too often view “race” as a natural and absolute trait, and “racism” as a question of primordial individual prejudice. Racial thinking, they argue, is in fact inseparable from an analysis of the dynamics of economics and class. “Race” as ideology is certainly real, but we should not mistake it as natural.
2:34 -- How did Merlin, a Thai-Chinese-American from the Asian SoCal suburbs find himself studying a primarily “black-white” story of race and racism in US history? Why not Asian American studies? How do his students make sense of the “black-white binary”?
18:20 -- We’ve all memorized the mantra “race is a social construct,” but Merlin argues that many old-fashioned nineteenth-century beliefs in the biological reality of race remain in circulation today, even among good liberals (think about the craze for 23andMe).
22:15 -- We touch on a recent New York Times article on the “race versus class” debate within the US left. Merlin has collaborated with Adolph Reed Jr. on several articles, but rather than take sides, we discuss their basic criticism of mainstream social science and its simplistic presentation of “racial disparities,” which often wind up stuck in individualized, psychologized notions of prejudice divorced from broader dynamics. Nate Silver-style quantitative regression analysis has helped reify “race” and “class” as static and natural variables of human existence.
30:40 -- Merlin and Reed’s co-authored articles on racial disparity reporting, both for Covid-19 and more generally. How did they come together to co-author these articles? Why is it dangerous to harp on “racial disparity” in a vacuum?
48:20 -- Missing from most discussions of “racial disparity” are the specific political-economic dynamics of capitalism. Specifically, modern “race” ideology originated in efforts to legitimize, justify, and naturalize slavery and Jim Crow in US history.
(In short: it’s not that white planters, because they were motivated by the racist ideas in their heads, therefore set up the slavery system; rather, because they profited off slavery and sought to defend it, planters then naturalized “race” as a scientific ideology.)
At stake today is this: a primordial account of racism (viz., “everyone’s just born a little racist”) is one that does not challenge the inequities of capitalism and is thus easily embraced by ultra-rich institutions and corporations.
57:20 -- Merlin warns (Andy) against going too far with “the Marxism” and reducing everything to capitalism. But also a warning against “white fragility”-style characterizations of 400 years of continuous white supremacy.
1:01:20 -- Is this historical and economic account of “racism” useful for comparative thinking, both with and beyond the black-white binary? For instance, understanding ethnic and racialized hatred between Dominicans and Haitians, or, further away, can “racial capitalism” be applied to understand China today? Asian American history? What about anti-Semitism?
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Today, we welcome Sonari Glinton as guest host. A well-known podcast and public radio voice, former NPR business reporter covering the auto industry and economics, Glinton is also a big music nerd and record collector.
On the Gist, RNC bingo.
In the interview, Sonari discusses how Covid-19 has affected the auto industry with Scotty Reiss, the founder of A Girls Guide to Cars, a site focused on empowering women to be smarter car owners. Reiss talks about Covid-19’s impact on the global supply chain, the increased diversity at corporate management level across the industry, And she offers some predictions for the future of mobility and what to look out for post-pandemic.
The protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin after the police shooting of Jacob Blake provide the backdrop to a Republican National Convention where the party tries its hardest to stoke division and deny reality. Then Wisconsin Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes talks to Jon about police brutality, the protests, and what Joe Biden needs to do to win Wisconsin.
By today’s measure, the false viral email memes of a couple decades ago seem almost quaint – a mere nuisance-level concern to The Fourth Estate. Now fortified by the perfect electronic Pandora’s Box of social media platforms and weaponized by everyone from toxic chatrooms to The Kremlin, falsehoods are delivered to us with targeted precision by firehose. A painstaking journalistic dedication to the search for truth in pursuit of the highest ideals of democracy – admittedly not perfectible, but at least heading the right direction – can’t not be swamped by the speedy profusion of viral lies now being exponentially spewed.
So, what’s a country to do? We’ll ponder just how public discourse beats the profusion of propaganda when the online odds are stacked against it. We’ll talk electronic gaslighting, the first amendment and the re-pursuit of objective reality.
Facilitated by:
Neil Skene, former St. Petersburg Times Capital Bureau Chief, Florida Trend columnist, and a former editor of Congressional Quarterly.
Paris Marx is joined by Thea Riofrancos to discuss why we should care about the supply chains of technology, what that resource extraction means for people in Latin America, and how we should think about a less resource-intensive future.
Tech Won't Save Us offers a critical perspective on tech, its worldview, and wider society with the goal of inspiring people to demand better tech and a better world. Follow the podcast (@techwontsaveus) and host Paris Marx (@parismarx) on Twitter.
Today, Kate Klonick is back as the guest host. She is an assistant professor at St. John’s Law School, a fellow at the Information Society Project at Yale Law School, and researcher of the intersection between law and tech. She’s also co-host of a daily YouTube series called In Lieu of Fun.
On the Gist, in 2020, every online company has a community of standards and manually reviews user content.
In the interview, Kate talks to Harvard law professor Noah Feldman about his idea for Facebook to create a Supreme Court to adjudicate disputes over speech. They discuss how he came up with the idea and pitched it to Sheryl Sandberg and Mark Zuckerberg, the influences it draws from political systems, and the size of the case it should choose as its first. Feldman hosts the podcast Deep Background.
In the spiel, Facebook’s oversight board could be the start of something revolutionary within big tech.
Andy talks to epidemiologist Michael Osterholm, one of his most trusted sources. He was one of the first to see the pandemic coming in January and has been a step ahead ever since. Andy and Mike talk about what has happened since the pandemic came to the US, what the major surprises are, and what is happening next. Plus, hear an appreciation of Andy’s co-host and son Zach, who is leaving the show to focus on his first semester of college.
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We are halfway through our guest hosting week. Today, Kate Klonick takes the mic. She is an assistant professor at St. John’s Law School, a fellow at the Information Society Project at Yale Law School, and researcher of the intersection between law and tech. She’s also co-host of a daily YouTube series called In Lieu of Fun.
On the Gist, how Kate found herself on a daily live show during quarantine.
In the interview, Kate talks to Ben Wittes, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, co-founder and editor-in-chief of Lawfare, and Kate’s co-host on In Lieu of Fun. They discuss how the global pandemic spurred a need for intelligent discussion in a less than lateral way. Guests on their show have ranged from apiarists to the former president of Estonia. Wittes wanted to build something that welcomed a community, allowing for audience input around guest selection and conversation topics. Along the way, he found an avenue that continues to forge new friendships without the stale in-person meet and greets we so often find at happy hours.
In the spiel, what it’s like to build an online community during this crisis.
