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The Utah governor is trying to model a different kind of leadership in a very dangerous political moment.

The Trump administration seems intent on using the assassination of Charlie Kirk to crack down on what it calls “the radical left.” But Spencer Cox doesn’t believe that suppression will make Americans safer.

For years now, Cox has been thinking seriously about our toxic political culture and what the path out of it could be. So I wanted to have him on the show to talk about how he responded in the hours and days after the shooting, what it has left him thinking about and what he thinks we should do now.

Mentioned:

Politics and Social Change Lab

Book Recommendations:

Our Biggest Fight by Frank H. McCourt, Jr.

A Time to Build by Yuval Levin

American Covenant by Yuval Levin

The Pursuit of Happiness by Jeffrey Rosen

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact checking by Michelle Harris, Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Caving to a pressure campaign from Donald Trump's FCC, Disney pulls Jimmy Kimmel's show off the air. Jon and Dan are joined by newly minted Crooked contributor Alex Wagner to discuss Trump's attacks on Kimmel and his new lawsuit against The New York Times, the impending takeover of TikTok by MAGA-aligned billionaires, and new details from the White House about the coming crackdown on left-leaning nonprofits and organizations. Then they react to the CDC's dangerous new recommendations on childhood vaccinations, excerpts from Kamala Harris's forthcoming tell-all book about the 2024 election, and Trump's bracing candor about when plane crashes are okay.

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast.

Get tickets to CROOKED CON November 6-7 in Washington, D.C at http://crookedcon.com

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To follow up this week's interview with Due Dissidence's Russell and Keaton about possible bias in Matt Taibbi's coverage of censorship, Bad Faith is making free Brie's interview with Taibbi on the heels of his Twitter Files exposé. Subscribe to Bad Faith on Patreon to instantly unlock our full premium episode library: http://patreon.com/badfaithpodcast

This week, Briahna interviews Matt Taibbi about a narrow concern she's had with the Twitter Files archive: Despite the obvious value that Matt and other twitter files reporters have created by exposing links between the intelligence agencies and online censorship, is it fair to characterize Twitter's bias as against the right and indifferent to the left given how little we know about which documents have been turned over by Elon Musk and why?  Unlike Musk, most whistleblowers are not the heads of the organizations they're informing on. Does Musk's investment in and control over Twitter demand more journalistic scrutiny? Is it possible to characterize the files reviewed so far without making broader claims about about the total archive that, at this point, can't be substantiated? Has there been sufficient inquiry into bias against the left, and has their been sufficient disclosure about the limitations Musk has put on the journalists who've been given access to the archive? It's a difficult and nuanced discussion.

Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube for video of this episode. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod).

Produced by Armand Aviram.

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).

Eliana Johnson joins today's the podcast to talk about the reasons behind Jimmy Kimmel's suspension and the role of government in it before we move on to the frightening and open advocacy of anti-Semitic opinions by the woke right in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination. Give a listen.

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