The Ezra Klein Show - Why Iran Believes It Has the Upper Hand

In a prime time address on Wednesday, President Trump proclaimed that America was “on the cusp of ending Iran’s sinister threat.” But he also kept open the option of boots on the ground. The effective closure of the Strait of Hormuz is also about to start really biting – as countries get hit with shortages, which would spike prices across the globe.

So what are Trump’s options? What would happen if he just declared victory and walked away from the fight? What kinds of military operations are on the table? If Trump ended the war without achieving his strategic goals, what would that mean for the United States, for Iran and for the world?

“I don’t see a victory in real terms at the end of this crisis…,” Suzanne Maloney told me. “And that is a very dangerous outcome for the long term.”

Maloney is one of Washington’s leading Iran experts. She has advised several presidential administrations and has written or edited a number of books on Iran. She is the vice president and director of the Brookings Institution’s foreign policy program.

Note: This conversation was recorded on Wednesday morning, before Trump’s speech on the war. But the speech reflected Maloney’s analysis almost perfectly.

Mentioned:

The Iranian Revolution at Forty by Suzanne Maloney

President Trump Addresses Nation on War with Iran

Trump tells Post war against Iran won’t last ‘much longer’ —Strait of Hormuz will reopen ‘automatically’ after US exit” by Steven Nelson

Book Recommendations:

The Twilight War by David Crist

American Hostages in Iran by Warren Christopher and Paul H. Kreisberg

Democracy in Iran by Misagh Parsa

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Pod Save America - Bondi Gets the Boot

Trump fires Attorney General Pam Bondi and announces that Todd Blanche, his former personal attorney, will serve in the interim while he waits to appoint her replacement. Jon and Dan react to Bondi's sudden ouster and discuss the president's incoherent national address about his war with Iran. Then, they check in on Trump's long-shot bid to overturn birthright citizenship at the Supreme Court, his attempt to restrict mail-in voting via executive order, and what appears to be the endgame for the Department of Homeland Security shutdown — a deal House Republicans could've passed before they went on recess. Finally, Jon introduces Dan to 'bimboification' as they discuss Fox News' reaction to Kristi Noem's husband's double life.

NPR's Book of the Day - The story behind cookbooks ‘The Talisman of Happiness’ and ‘Will This Make You Happy’

Today’s episode features two cookbooks: One new, the other newly translated. First, a classic Italian cookbook (and classic wedding gift) has been translated into English in full for the first time. Juana Summers spoke with publisher Michael Szczerban about the long journey that brought the regional Italian recipes of The Talisman of Happiness to a global audience. Then, pastry chef Tanya Bush once looked to the kitchen during a difficult moment. She spoke with NPR’s Scott Detrow about Will This Make You Happy, a cookbook and memoir about her year of self-discovery and imperfect baking.

To listen to Book of the Day sponsor-free and support NPR's book coverage, sign up for Book of the Day+ at plus.npr.org/bookoftheday

To manage podcast ad preferences, review the links below:

See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.

NPR Privacy Policy

Bad Faith - Episode 536 – “Greater Israel” Does Lebanon (w/ Rania Khalek)

Lebanese-American journalist Rania Khalek, from BreakThrough News, reports from Beirut on Israel's territorial expansion into Lebanon, the mass displacement of 20% of the population, & how Israelis running the Gaza playbook yet again. Hot off her viral takedown of Piers Morgan, she breaks down the "will you condemn" double standard, unpacks the diverse opinions Lebanese have about Hezbollah & normalization with Israel, and debunks all the hasbara the Ellisons see fit to print. (Note that this was recorded before AOC statement re no longer supporting Iron Dome funding, and her subsequent reframing that Israel can fund it's own Iron Dome, which she described as "critical to keep innocent civilians safe.")

Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube for video of this episode. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod).

Produced by Armand Aviram.

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).