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The Ezra Klein Show - Michael Pollan’s Journey to the Borderlands of Consciousness

Consciousness is this amazing, mind-bending riddle. It’s the only thing any of us truly knows. We experience everything else in life through it. And yet we barely understand it. We don’t know what it’s made of or how it works or why it exists.

But scientists and theorists have been trying to answer those questions, and have made some startling discoveries. The science writer Michael Pollan, known for books like “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” and “How to Change Your Mind,” spent five years on the vanguard of this research. And his new book, “A World Appears: A Journey Into Consciousness,” shows that the closer you look at consciousness, the weirder it gets.

I asked Pollan to walk through some of the places his mind wandered on this journey — including the role of the body and feelings in consciousness, fascinating studies that provide evidence for plant sentience, the researchers who have abandoned their old theories after trying psychedelic drugs, and the possibility that consciousness may not emerge from inside us at all. “I’ve entered this ‘never say never’ realm with this research,” Pollan told me.

Mentioned:

“The Descriptive Experience Sampling method” by Russell T. Hurlburt and Sarah A. Akhter

“What Is It Like to Be a Bat?” by Thomas Nagel

The Hidden Spring by Mark Solms

Descartes’ Error by Antonio Damasio

“The Oxford Handbook of Spontaneous Thought” by Kalina Christoff and Kieran C. R. Fox

Book Recommendations:

The Blind Spot by Adam Frank, Marcelo Gleiser and Evan Thompson

Ducks, Newburyport by Lucy Ellmann

Being You by Anil Seth

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Kim Freda. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Michelle Harris, Rollin Hu, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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The Daily Detail - The Daily Detail for 3.31.26

Alabama

  • Sister of fallen police officer defends AG Marshall from attack ads coming from Club for Growth
  • AMCC overpaid a law firm by $200K according to recent state audit
  • Judge issues restraining order against CAW over flouride in water issue
  • Man who is convicted for murder of 5 year old girl is asking for his execution to be expadited

National

  • WH Press secretary says Trump wants Congress to end break and fund DHS
  • Trump releases video of more US airstrikes in Iran, Iran issues tolls on Strait of Hormuz and fires missiles back at Middle Eastern countries
  • SC Senator Lindsey Graham seen at DisneyLand as US troops deploy to Iran
  • Bank of America agrees to $72M settlement with Epstein survivors
  • Court filing in Tyler Robinson murder trial shows that bullet does not match with rifle supposedly used to shoot and kill Charlie Kirk
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New Books in Indigenous Studies - Allan Greer, “Canada in the Age of Rum” (McGill-Queen’s UP, 2026)

Awash in a sea of rum describes the years between the 1670s and the 1830s in the colonies that would later become Canada. Millions of litres of the sugar-based liquor were imported every year to supply a comparatively small population of colonists and Indigenous people. Why rum, and why so much?
Rum was cheap and plentiful. Intimately connected to the West Indian slave plantation complex, rum shipped to early Canada and around the Atlantic World was part of the early modern expansion of intercontinental trade known as the first globalization. Canada in the Age of Rum (McGill-Queen's UP, 2026) by Professor Allan Greer shows what happened to the vast quantities that came to Canadian shores. Rum was especially important to workers in the early Canadian staples industries. Fishermen and fur-trade voyageurs drank rum in massive quantities, supplied on credit and at grossly inflated prices by their employers, an arrangement that served to claw back wages and ensure the profitability of enterprises that would not have been viable otherwise. Traders deliberately sought to get hunting peoples hooked on rum in order to ensure a steady supply of pelts – alcohol was not so much a commodity for sale as it was a gift used to induce hunters to conform to the ways of the capitalist economy. However, Indigenous people drank rum in their own ways and for their own reasons; and when drinking became a serious social problem, they organized to resist it. The story ends in the 1830s when the combined effects of the temperance movement and the rise of whisky led to a sharp decline in rum consumption.
This brilliant history follows the thread of a single commodity from West Indian plantations to Newfoundland, Quebec, and the west, revealing rum as a critical lubricant of the social life of early Canada and its particular version of early capitalism.

This interview was conducted by Dr. Miranda Melcher whose book focuses on post-conflict military integration, understanding treaty negotiation and implementation in civil war contexts, with qualitative analysis of the Angolan and Mozambican civil wars. You can find Miranda’s interviews on New Books with Miranda Melcher, wherever you get your podcasts.

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What A Day - Conservatism’s Biggest Conference Was Missing Its Star

Over the past decade or so, the Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC, has become a massive gathering of right-wing power brokers — but this year, President Trump didn’t go. Neither did Vice President JD Vance nor Secretary of State Marco Rubio. The lackluster convention seemed to mirror a MAGA movement that’s looking increasingly unmoored. Ben Jacobs is a Washington-based political reporter who has been going to CPAC for years. We talked about his trip to the 2026 convention and what made this year so different from the others.

And in headlines, Trump makes yet another threat against Iran, Transportation Security Administration workers start receiving some backpay, and TMZ is giving members of Congress the tabloid treatment.

Show Notes:

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Pod Save America - SHOCKING GOP Plan to Fund War with Health Care Cuts

Congressional Republicans consider massive cuts to federal healthcare spending in order to raise $200 billion to fund Trump's war in Iran. Jon and Lovett discuss how that plan could affect Republicans in the midterms, Trump's ballooning economic crisis, and his desperate attempt to calm the markets by saying negotiations have made "great progress" while simultaneously threatening Iran with war crimes. Then, the guys check in on how the war is playing among young Republicans at CPAC, House Republicans' fight with Senate Republicans over funding DHS, and Trump's real top priority — the construction of his poorly designed ballroom. Then, Josh Turek, a Democratic candidate for Senate in Iowa, stops by the studio to talk to Tommy about "prairie populism" and the president's disdain for disabled Americans.

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email transcripts@crooked.com and include the name of the podcast.

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Serious Inquiries Only - SIO508: The Data Shows That Authoritarianism Is Very Often Successfully Reversed. Yes, Really.

"Yes we can" vote and protest our way out of authoritarianism.

It's a classic case of academic literature never making it to mainstream consumption. Hang around social media long enough and you'll hear that we're basically screwed. A complete fascist take over is either extremely likely, inevitable, or it's already here. And there's not much we can do about it. Unless some other country invades us, we'll be waiting for a civil war or a bloody military coup to hopefully maybe turn things around. That's what history teaches us, right?

Literally the opposite. An incredible data set that a team of thousands of academics have been assembling for over a decade provides a unique opportunity to examine these questions with fresh eyes. To look at wannabe dictators and see how many succeeded, how many eventually lost power, how democracy returned (if ever), and why. With this systematic approach, we see that strengthened democracy specifically because of authoritarian episodes is increasingly common. In fact, in the last 30 years it's the most common response to autocratization, and most often achieved by internal democratic actors. Taking this into account, events once viewed as episodes of successful stand-alone autocratization, with resistance ultimately futile, are actually better characterized as failures that caused a wave of democratic sentiment in the populace. Successful civil resistance that just took time.

Jenessa takes us through the paper that has her jumping for joy this week. Resist!

Further reading:

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WSJ Tech News Briefing - Why OpenAI Shut Down Sora

OpenAI shocked many last week with its decision to shutter its video generation app Sora. WSJ reporter Berber Jin joins us for an exclusive look behind the scenes of the decision. Plus, at the WSJ Leadership Institute’s recent Chief People Officer Summit, IBM's HR chief explained the company's plan to hire more entry-level workers in a move to prioritize growth, widely contrasting with other companies which look to reduce headcount amid the AI boom. Julie Chang hosts.


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Short Wave - Predicting spring bloom is an art and a science

Do you ever wish you could predict the future? The National Park Service in Washington D.C. does it every year when they forecast when the Capitol’s cherry blossoms will reach peak bloom. People travel from all over the world to enjoy the annual National Cherry Blossom Festival and to glimpse these fragile flowers before they are gone. On this month’s Nature Quest, we learn the ins and outs of cherry tree blossoms, how scientists make that big prediction every year — and why all this focus on blooms can help scientists better understand climate change. 

This episode is part of Nature Quest, our monthly segment from listeners noticing a change in the world around them. To participate, send a voice memo to shortwave@npr.org with your name, location and your question about a change you're seeing in nature!

Want to learn more about nature’s calendar? Check out our first Nature Quest episode on whether flowers are blooming early.

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The Best One Yet - 🪩 “Austin Powers Effect” — The End of Trends. Louis Vuitton’s insane ship. Aluminum’s LaCroix crush. +Stolen KitKat Picassos

It’s been 30 years since Austin Powers, which was 30 years from the 1960s… That explains innovation today.

Hold onto your LaCroixs: The Iran War popped Aluminum prices… It’s America’s fave metal.

Louis Vuitton built a cruise-ship store on land… Experiential Retail is out Landmark Retail is in.

Plus, the two latest multi-million-dollar heists… KitKat bars and Monet paintings


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The Indicator from Planet Money - Who’s afraid of private credit?

There is a $3 trillion dollar black box at the center of the economy. It’s called private credit. These are direct loans from private investors to private companies. They’re often riskier, less regulated than traditional bank loans – and far less transparent. Spooked investors are scrambling to cash out, and some funds aren’t letting them. It’s all fueling fears of another financial crisis.

On today’s show, the private credit exodus. 

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Related episodes: 
What could break next? 
Who’s financing Meta’s massive AI data center?

For sponsor-free episodes of The Indicator from Planet Money, subscribe to Planet Money+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Fact-checking by Sierra Juarez. Music by Drop Electric. Find us: TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Newsletter.  


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