This is an episode in two parts. First, my thoughts on Charlie Kirk’s murder, now that I’ve had a few days to process it, and to see the unfolding reactions and responses on both sides. Then a conversation with Ben Shapiro — one that was recorded shortly before Kirk’s assassination, but that has a different significance after it.
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin and Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Carole Sabouraud, Sonia Herrero and Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
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In 2020, the US Supreme Court ruled, in a surprise decision, that treaties still on the books as US law meant that the Muscogee people of Oklahoma maintained legal jurisdiction over a large portion of the state; in short, that much of Oklahoma remained Indian Country. McGirt v. Oklahoma has been fought over in the court system since, but the implications are ongoing, in Oklahoma and elsewhere. In By the Fire We Carry: The Generations-Long Fight for Justice on Native Land (Harper, 2024), award winning journalist, writer, and podcaster Rebecca Nagle tracks this story back hundreds of years, through the history of the Muscogee and other Southeastern Indigenous nations, to the era of removal in the 1830s, and up through the present day. This includes the case of Patrick Murphy, and the murder that kickstarted McGirt's surprising and unlikely trek through the courts. A powerful of story of what can happen when people simply follow the laws as written, Nagle argues that Indigenous resistance, resilience, and power as just as much of the story of the West as disposession and land loss.
Discover the sweeping story of how Indigenous, European, and African traditions intertwined to form an entirely new cuisine, with over 90 recipes for the modern home cook—from the James Beard Cookbook Hall of Famer and star of the Netflix docuseries High on the Hog. One of our preeminent culinary historians, Dr. Jessica B. Harris has conducted decades of research throughout the Americas, the Caribbean, and Africa. In this telling of the origins of American food, though, she gets more personal. As heritage is history, she intertwines the larger sweeping past with stories and recipes from friends she’s made over the years—people whose family dishes go back to the crucial era when Native peoples encountered Europeans and the enslaved Africans they brought with them. Through this mix, we learn that Clear Broth Clam Chowder has both Indigenous and European roots; the same, too, with Enchiladas Suizas, tomatillo-smothered tortillas made “Swiss” with cheese and dairy; and that the hallmarks of African American food through the centuries have been evolution based on region, migration, and innovation, resulting in classics like Red Beans and Rice and Peach Bread Pudding Cupcakes with Bourbon Glaze. With recipes ranging from everyday meals to festive spreads, Braided Heritage: Recipes and Stories on the Origin of American Cuisine (Clarkson Potter, 2025) offers a new, in-depth, delicious look at American culinary history.
Discover the sweeping story of how Indigenous, European, and African traditions intertwined to form an entirely new cuisine, with over 90 recipes for the modern home cook—from the James Beard Cookbook Hall of Famer and star of the Netflix docuseries High on the Hog. One of our preeminent culinary historians, Dr. Jessica B. Harris has conducted decades of research throughout the Americas, the Caribbean, and Africa. In this telling of the origins of American food, though, she gets more personal. As heritage is history, she intertwines the larger sweeping past with stories and recipes from friends she’s made over the years—people whose family dishes go back to the crucial era when Native peoples encountered Europeans and the enslaved Africans they brought with them. Through this mix, we learn that Clear Broth Clam Chowder has both Indigenous and European roots; the same, too, with Enchiladas Suizas, tomatillo-smothered tortillas made “Swiss” with cheese and dairy; and that the hallmarks of African American food through the centuries have been evolution based on region, migration, and innovation, resulting in classics like Red Beans and Rice and Peach Bread Pudding Cupcakes with Bourbon Glaze. With recipes ranging from everyday meals to festive spreads, Braided Heritage: Recipes and Stories on the Origin of American Cuisine (Clarkson Potter, 2025) offers a new, in-depth, delicious look at American culinary history.
In 2020, the US Supreme Court ruled, in a surprise decision, that treaties still on the books as US law meant that the Muscogee people of Oklahoma maintained legal jurisdiction over a large portion of the state; in short, that much of Oklahoma remained Indian Country. McGirt v. Oklahoma has been fought over in the court system since, but the implications are ongoing, in Oklahoma and elsewhere. In By the Fire We Carry: The Generations-Long Fight for Justice on Native Land (Harper, 2024), award winning journalist, writer, and podcaster Rebecca Nagle tracks this story back hundreds of years, through the history of the Muscogee and other Southeastern Indigenous nations, to the era of removal in the 1830s, and up through the present day. This includes the case of Patrick Murphy, and the murder that kickstarted McGirt's surprising and unlikely trek through the courts. A powerful of story of what can happen when people simply follow the laws as written, Nagle argues that Indigenous resistance, resilience, and power as just as much of the story of the West as disposession and land loss.
When Megan Greenwell was 34 she landed a coveted job in journalism as the editor-in-chief of the sports and culture blog, Deadspin. Just over a year later a post about why she was resigning went viral – a private equity firm had bought Deadspin’s parent company, and was seeking "a quick cash-out rather than the growth that comes from a well-run business."
Her experience led her to spend six years investigating the industry for her book Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dreamwhich follows four Americans whose lives were upended by private equity takeovers in retail, healthcare, housing, and media.
Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus.
And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com.
Memphis, Tennessee, is the latest city in President Donald Trump's Crime Takeover-A-Go-Go. On Monday, Trump signed a presidential memorandum establishing a "Memphis Safe Task Force" and announced that he would send the National Guard to the city. During a press conference detailing the decision, Trump said that he wanted to accomplish in Memphis – and everywhere else – what federal authorities did in Washington, D.C. But the question is…what exactly did the administration accomplish in D.C.? We asked Emma Uber, a reporter covering crime and criminal justice for the Washington Post.
And in headlines, the suspect in Charlie Kirk's killing reportedly confessed to the murder in a Discord group chat, according to the Washington Post, Secretary of State Marco Rubio heads to Qatar, and a longtime federal prosecutor — who happens to be James Comey's daughter — sues the Trump administration over her firing.
What to know about the White House now promising to crack down on certain liberal groups.
And who took over The Charlie Kirk Show for the first episode since he was murdered.
Also, who will make the interest rate decision after some last-minute shuffling at the Fed.
Plus: what we know about the deal to keep TikTok up and running in the U.S., how most people are using ChatGPT, and why Apple says you should download its latest software update.
Those stories and even more news to know in about 10 minutes!
Join us every Mon-Fri for more daily news roundups!
In response to the murder of Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump vows retribution against his political opponents, JD Vance asks Americans to snitch on anyone criticizing Kirk's politics, and Stephen Miller pledges to "disrupt, dismantle, and destroy" left-wing organizations. Jon, Lovett, and Tommy react to these new threats, then break down the latest news about Kirk's killer, Kash Patel's mishandling of the FBI's investigation, and the bleak future of TikTok and of one the legacy media organizations it's supplanting: CBS News. Then, Sen. Chris Murphy joins Lovett to talk about how Democrats should stand up to Trump's impending crackdown on free speech.
