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Lex Fridman Podcast - #482 – Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Pavel Durov is the founder and CEO of Telegram.
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.

Transcript:
https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript

CONTACT LEX:
Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey
AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama
Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring
Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact

EPISODE LINKS:
Pavel’s Telegram: https://t.me/durov
Pavel’s X: https://x.com/durov
Telegram: https://telegram.org/
Telegram Contests: https://contest.com/

SPONSORS:
To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:
Miro: Online collaborative whiteboard platform.
Go to https://miro.com/
UPLIFT Desk: Standing desks and office ergonomics.
Go to https://upliftdesk.com/lex
Fin: AI agent for customer service.
Go to https://fin.ai/lex
LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.
Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex
Shopify: Sell stuff online.
Go to https://shopify.com/lex

OUTLINE:
(00:00) – Introduction
(02:46) – Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections
(11:29) – Philosophy of freedom
(14:37) – No alcohol
(22:42) – No phone
(28:38) – Discipline
(49:50) – Telegram: Lean philosophy, privacy, and geopolitics
(1:05:12) – Arrest in France
(1:21:23) – Romanian elections
(1:32:18) – Power and corruption
(1:41:50) – Intense education
(1:53:51) – Nikolai Durov
(1:58:19) – Programming and video games
(2:02:33) – VK origins & engineering
(2:19:46) – Hiring a great team
(2:29:02) – Telegram engineering & design
(2:48:04) – Encryption
(2:53:01) – Open source
(2:57:48) – Edward Snowden
(3:00:20) – Intelligence agencies
(3:01:32) – Iran and Russia government pressure
(3:04:41) – Apple
(3:11:38) – Poisoning
(3:43:53) – Money
(3:52:45) – TON
(4:02:35) – Bitcoin
(4:05:34) – Two chairs dilemma
(4:12:14) – Children
(4:23:24) – Father
(4:27:55) – Quantum immortality
(4:34:27) – Kafka

PODCAST LINKS:
– Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
– Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
– Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
– RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
– Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
– Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips

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The Source - Scholar in the eye of the storm: David Lesch on Syria

"Dodgers to Damascus," by Catherine Nixon Cooke, documents David Lesch's work in Syria and the Middle East, a part of the world plagued by conflict, power struggles, and warfare. It offers a firsthand glimpse inside modern Syria, its neighboring countries, and their connections to the rest of the world.array(3) { [0]=> string(20) "https://www.tpr.org/" [1]=> string(0) "" [2]=> string(1) "0" }
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CBS News Roundup - 09/30/2025 | World News Roundup Late Edition

Government shutdown looking like a reality as Senate can't agree on funding resolutions. During Defense Secretary's meeting with military leaders, President Trump says military can use U.S. cities as training grounds. Purge at the FBI. CBS News Correspondent Jennifer Keiper with tonight's World news Roundup.

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Marketplace All-in-One - The “stuck economy,” tariffs and Wall Street

While the stock market appears unconcerned about potential red flags in this economy, the bond market's a bit more cautious. As Washington nears a shutdown and the labor market flags, Treasury yields are ticking down. But demand for those safer, long-term bonds hasn’t been uniform. Plus: Trump adds to existing tariffs on Canadian lumber, OpenAI wades into e-commerce waters, and Abha Bhattarai at the Washington Post talks about the “stuck economy.”


Every story has an economic angle. Want some in your inbox? Subscribe to our daily or weekly newsletter.


Marketplace is more than a radio show. Check out our original reporting and financial literacy content at marketplace.org — and consider making an investment in our future.

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The Gist - KJ Steinberg, on The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox

We talk with KJ Steinberg, showrunner of Hulu’s The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox, about concentrating on Knox’s perspective while still showing how others perceived her, and the legal tightropes that shaped the series. She details the refracted structure (episodes from the prosecutor’s to the co-defendant’s POVs) and why the story follows Knox through re-entry. As she puts it, “the echoes of trauma are loud and long.” Also: Israel’s hostage ethos, why twenty remaining names can command a nation’s focus, contrasted with how Americans register their own wrongfully detained citizens. Plus: SecDef Pete Hegseth’s “Semper Shorntis” beard decree.

Produced by Corey Wara

Production Coordinator Ashley Khan

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1A - How Spending Time In Nature Helps Our Health

Many of us know that being outside feels good.

Maybe it’s for a short walk to the store. Maybe for a hike at a nearby mountain. Or maybe spending time at the beach with loved ones for a holiday.

But did you know that a short walk in nature can improve your attention span by 20 percent? And that even fake plants have been shown to deliver health benefits?

There are real benefits to surrounding yourself with the natural world.

We sit down with the pioneer of environmental neuroscience, Marc Berman. He’s out with a new book all about the science behind the benefits spending time outside called “Nature and the Mind.”

Find more of our programs online. Listen to 1A sponsor-free by signing up for 1A+ at plus.npr.org/the1a. 

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Newshour - Taliban shuts down internet in Afghanistan

The United Nations has appealed to the Taliban to immediately restore telecommunications across Afghanistan. UN officials said the ban had far-reaching consequences, including on the banking and financial systems. Access to emergency services and medical care has also been hit. Mobile phone services are still not working and many flights have been cancelled. We'll hear from an Afghan activist about the impact this will have on daily life, and our chief International Correspondent Lyse Doucet.

Also in the programme: the US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth declares a war on woke in the military; and scientists have made early stage human embryos from DNA taken from skin cells, raising the prospect of new fertility treatments.

(Picture: Telecom antennas stand on a mountain amid service shutdown across the country in Kabul, Afghanistan, September 30, 2025. Credit: Sayed Hassib/REUTERS)

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Consider This from NPR - Ukraine’s scrappy wartime innovation

NPR’s National Security Correspondent Greg Myre spent the summer reporting on the war in Ukraine. He saw the devastation of the conflict. But he also saw something else: the country leveraging its resources at home to meet the moment…including in Lviv where they’re racing to make as many of their own weapons as fast as they can.


And at a hospital near the frontlines in central Ukraine where Ukraine's neurosurgeons are conducting state-of-the-art operations with cutting-edge technology.

For sponsor-free episodes of Consider This, sign up for Consider This+ via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Email us at considerthis@npr.org.

This episode was produced by David West and Matt Ozug. It was edited by Andrew Sussman. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun.

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Motley Fool Money - Asian Food Chains Moving Stateside

American palates are shifting, and investors are starting to take notice. In today’s episode of Motley Fool Money, host Emily Flippen is joined by analysts Sanmeet Deo and Jason Hall to unpack four of the newest Asian food chains looking to expand across the United States


The team dives into:

- Whether or not Jollibee’s rise is sustainable

- The re-emergence of Luckin Coffee and changing consumer tastes

- If the experiential dining of Kura Sushi and Haidilao Hot Pot are replicable

- Which chain offers investors the best opportunity today


Companies discussed: JBFCF, LKNCY, KRUS, HDALF


Host: Emily Flippen, Jason Hall, Sanmeet Deo

Producer: Anand Chokkavelu

Engineer: Dan Boyd


Disclosure: Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for informational purposes only. The Motley Fool and its affiliates (collectively, “TMF”) do not endorse, recommend, or verify the accuracy or completeness of the statements made within advertisements. TMF is not involved in the offer, sale, or solicitation of any securities advertised herein and makes no representations regarding the suitability, or risks associated with any investment opportunity presented. Investors should conduct their own due diligence and consult with legal, tax, and financial advisors before making any investment decisions. TMF assumes no responsibility for any losses or damages arising from this advertisement.


We’re committed to transparency: All personal opinions in advertisements from Fools are their own. The product advertised in this episode was loaned to TMF and was returned after a test period or the product advertised in this episode was purchased by TMF. Advertiser has paid for the sponsorship of this episode.


Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices

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